Hmmm, I knew that stuff already and I have tried it. However they are still staying ontop of any windows placed over them. I am using Layercut, for no other reason than that is what I have on my computer. Perhaps this is a bug with that module. Yes AlwaysOnTop is default to false I believe. I also cant' get my VWM to be not on top as well. Once again I have looked through my .rc files to make sure there isn't a VWMAlwaysOnTop command and there isn't. That module seems to be not cooperating as well. I am using a predefined theme, perhaps I should start from scratch but hey that is why I picked a them in the first place in order to not have to do all this work. Any more ideas fellas?