What happened to the LS theme scene after the transition from OTS to OTS2 ?
I've noticed a trend whereas very few themers actually take time to create impressive graphics that match the strengths and utility of their themes
I've noticed that most themers throw up themes that are obnoxiously loud (graphically speaking) or seem like they had no interest whatsoever in creating good graphics
When I first started using Litestep 4 years ago, I remember how the community admired those themers that went to great lengths to deliver incredible themes that were graphically impressive and had awesome features
So what is the cause of this shift ? Has OTS2 driven away the experienced themers ? Did they all graduate from college ( :D ) ? Or is this just another turn in styles, such as those that occur in the art world ?
What are your opinions ?
- Joe
maybe it's because we have lives? most of us don't work on our themes all day, perfecting every little image. plus, we get them to look how we want them to. just like any other form of art (and theming could definitely be considered an art form of sorts), we make them look how we want, we don't try to please the public at large. you're still going to get some graphically amazing themes, but not all of them will be.
plus, the "experienced themers" don't always create the most graphically impressive themes. they create the themes that accomplish new, exciting things. anyone with $100 can have someone create great images for their theme, and use them with a mediocre theme backend.
deuce
OTS2 doesn't drive away experienced themers. It might initially because change is (just that), but I think most can accept that OTSv2 is overall logically superior to OTSv1 (although with a smattering of limitations). It was designed for the majority of users. If anything, a theme standard should open themers' minds a bit and challenge their ideas before they eventually convert; it's a necessity to follow the latest and greatest theme standard in order to build a userbase, if that is what the themer wants. Users will always admire the themers that listen to them and continue to support them.
But OTS2, while making it easy for new users to use LiteStep, hides the basics of how LiteStep works. There might even be some who think that the structure provided by OTS2 must be followed or LS as a program will not work. Not to mention that we have installers (for LS and themes) now, which the experienced feel makes LiteStep dangerously too easy for the user. The hiding of technical details then, on many levels, perhaps leads to more themes that are not robust because there is a sense of limitation and ease in place, in addition to the fact that LiteStep is already naturally fragile in terms of configuration. Themes that do enough are enough. In the end OTS2 is probably attracting more (casual) users, of which then less of that population are the curious, creative themer-type, who need to believe there is flexibility to be really drawn into theming.
For the newbie themer it's easy to learn how to theme by examining history and source (previous themes) and modifying a theme enough to make it closer to yours than the original, and if you learn enough then you can then make your own to claim your own.
If classic themes are not updated by those capable and available to the latest and greatest theme standard, then new themers are limited to only new source. There's more chance of theme 'revival' to happen when there are those experienced users who have been around long enough to witness good themes and the new changes to theme infrastructure. Experienced users can leave, like anyone in a community, most often because of real life. LiteStep with all its flexibility and options for customization, does take a lot of time.
OTS2 has caused a technical and stylistic change in themes if only because of its success in attracting an influx of new users. The number of registrations for this version of ls.net has to mean something. It's a vicious cycle when there's a wave of new themers following the norm that they set.
I think most great themers are holding out with their own work. Most people don't realize the time that goes into making a design interface and complain about stupid stuff.
When you spend a year to make [Noir] and users email you how to get this and that to work its agravates some people.
A theme will never please everyone, so with that said.
The longer the newbs use LS the better they will get with it.
I just hope to see themers come full circle like 4 years ago.
Just my $0.02
People, and taste. That's why. Good design is good, bad design is bad, and impressive design is timeless. However, once you are into the 'good' range, there's a lot of personal leeway.
I don't like ugly things...but once it doesn't look ugly and out of place, it's good enough, IMO. The utility and options, and simplicity/consistency of design speak for themselves beyond that.
Graphically, my next theme will have reached a peak--nowhere to go. Still pushing for more features in the package, though.
On other posts:
-Installer: bah. I remember when your theme was like an LS distro is now. It's so much better with the installer.
And really, nothing that you could get at then is hidden now, you just have to look for .rc files. However, being a PC user who began learning in MS-DOS, and is still at home with a CLI, I may have some insights others don't get for awhile.
-Flexibility: as before: new ideas. You can't do anything new without new tools. Until xLabel, that's where I was stuck, for over a year. Theme away, but there's always a hitch. Something you fundamentally could not do. That is gradually dissappearing, even with popup modules.
-Holding out: I can believe that. I like helping people out when I can, and want my work to be of some quality. My first two themes I released, I did so more because of the fact that nothing was like them than out of any real caring.
However, being a general tech guy, I know about avoiding those people who want you to be their tech support ***. When most people realize that what you do took a lot of time, even if it is a fun hobby, and appreciate it, all is well. When they don't...yecch. If you cannot discriminate between these people early enough (which Iv'e gotten pretty good at in the last few years), I can easily see not wanting to release even themes that would change the way we can look at LS, as non|step and Vodka Martini. After all, there are only so many hours a week one can devote to a hobby like this, and when people you're trying to help (which you pretty much have to, being the theme creator) are not appreciating it, it really isn't that fun anymore.
I apologize for the long post, but recently I have been interested in doing more and more with my themes, and have put a lot of time into thinking about it, and as much on why and how as the end result.
(edit: I wondered what word filtering would be done :))
Thanks for all of your opinions, they were really very informative and I learned a lot.
I really admire those of you who've dedicated so much to Litestep over the years. It's great to see that it was kept alive after going through so much.
I used to theme, but my first and last theme was posted on the old Litestep.net site almost 4 years ago now...and a lot has changed. Although I made something simple, I definitely worked on it and was proud for others to see the product.
After the old Litestep.net site was taken down (box hacked and taken by FBI, if I can recall correctly), I stopped using Litestep for about a year because I became so unfamiliar, and I don't think I've stepped into the IRC channel for maybe 3 years now.
Coming back and seeing how OTS2 has invited more people has been great, but I was surprised by how much the orientation of Litestep users had changed. That's why you'll see my comments in posts from time to time. I'm not being mean necessarily, just shocked :D
Anyway, I'm glad that Litestep is still alive after so many years, and although some faces have come and gone (grinch, anyone ?), I am glad that more keep coming each day
- Joe
i'm not too sure if i know what you mean by graphically intense but if you mean the themes where the interface looks like moulded plastic, well in my personal opinion those sort of themes are hideous.
i like simplicity, clean lines.
i don't have the attraction of hping for my 2d computer monitor to look like a real world 3d object.
they are completely different things.
also could someone explain how ots2 discourages graphics?
to be honest i know basically nothing about ots, i learned about how to theme from picking apart others themes.
now i have made my theme which almosst perfectly does everythig i want it to i'm very happy with it but i have no intentions to distribute it so i never bothered to read the ots docs.
i was under the impression though that all that ots was is a standardised way of organising the files in a theme so that it's easier for a third party to install, understand and edit a theme.
in what way does that (assuming my understanding is correct of course) limit people's ability to include fancy graphics?
I think he is more talking about the monotone boxes with big ole gradients.