i should have added that the normal .sysop close, restore, move menu comes up but i thought it could be something to do withthat and tried adding the .sysop command the the rc but it made no difference.

i dont have any of the other commands you mentio enabled.

thanks anyway oilman.

the original i built from scratch but for the rebuilt version i used the taskbar from gogg's _undesrcore theme (which doesn't have this problem, i just checked) maybe thats what comes from cutting corners and i should just re-re-do it all from scratch