Ok, I'l try to answer all now, step by step:

@inhaler:
I only could repeat what I said on IRC:
ask 10 ppl how a theme has to look like and you'll get 10 different answers.
Another thing is, that we asked for features all of you want to see in the theme, but only a very few answerd and gave ideas.
New is the moving/hiding/showing of the elemnts.
I'm using ls a very long time and never have seen such a feature that you're able to remove/add an element into a bar that repsotions other elements without(!!!!!) recycle, or just move it in the bar. I agree that free floating elemnts are nothing new, but this was a feature some users would like to have.
An also new feature is the snapshot, that you're allows to positionate your elements where you want them to have, make a snapshot and it will load again without any lsbox.
Of cause there are many features you already know from others, cause you only have these modules and the most important, you have to create a theme that most(!!!) of the users love to use.


@West:
What seems to be the problem. you're allowed to change everything without need to work on hours on the code. If you had red the whole "FAQ" you should know that you can add more scripts or manipulate the themevars.rc. I don't think that you would use (eg) Sputnik and change the whole scripts in it. We made this, cause it's very important that you're not allowed to change, mzscript and other modules are case sensitive, and on changing a simple line could crash the theme, but if you want to, nobody can stop you, and I don't want to!!! make you're own experiences


HovaQ:
We're so sorry that it doesn't work, but we'll keep working on it and hope that you could be perphaps a tester for 98.
we are trying to make it workable on all win-os


---------------------------------

One note at the end:

I can't understand why ppl always have to stamp with their feet on others work. If you don't like it, create a better theme, or don't use it.
But you have to keep in mind, that if you're going to do, others could do the same to you.
I think it's really contumelious for all the themer, who spent a lot of time and power in their projects. All of the themer who do their job like what they do, but there will ever be user who doesn't like their work, and that's ok.
(this is not only for Gathering opinions, this has to said a long time ago)

I think it would be better to try to keep common code common. That is, if two "skins" use almost exactly identical scripts/settings, make it so they can be identical and have only one copy.

Otherwise, at least the rearrangement stuff is very impressive. Just one thing about that -- how do you cancel?

I only objected to that certain way of putting it... I've always thought that you should encourage people to figure out how LS works, and that is not achieved by telling people "don't touch anything, you will screw it up".

I apologize for the grumpy tone in my previous comment, that statement just annoyed me. It's a good solid theme, guys... =)

@RabidCow:
This is a nice idea, but impossible.
The whole script is/can be Standalone (read the Skinning_FAQ) to let the Users post the Themes using the "Engine" as every Theme before ( not only as Skin in the Gathering folder ;) )

So every Theme needs is own copy, which can be adapted by the Themer to work perfect for HIS THEME.

With the Skins inside Gathering it's the same, by changing the occuring "ThemeSkinDir" into "ThemeDir" it will become a normal Theme like any other therefore every has it's own copy

"how do you cancel?"
I don't know what you exactly mean with Cancel, but you can change (speed/steps) or deactivate the ANIMATION at all in the Themevars.rc (Title: LSBox Animations) or the Fading Speed then you have an instant change in about 50 milliseconds ;). The moving arrows autohide after 10 sec or on RightClick.

Andymon

@West:
No problem, I agree with you that the code should be simple.
But this is different to other themes. As the ls.net users decidet to create a "special" theme for ls.net, we all knew that this would never be a theme for non-advanced themer, but a theme for non-advanced user. If you're taking a small look at the code you'll what I ment in the FAQ.
I just want to make sure that ls-themer-beginners do not work on the code (in gathering skin) by themselves and wirte us emails when the theme broke down cause of changes.
We will ever help themers, but not if they made a crash with an existing skin (especially not Gathering skin).
And thats why I used a.... let me say... hard "introduction" for that.

but it makes us happy that you like it :)

Oh... So what makes them "skins" rather than full themes? Well, it's not important. :)

cancelling: Yeah, right-clicking. :) Didn't realize that...

This is just a copy of what I had in a different discussion thing:

Ok, I think I've isolated the lsslider problem. It occurs when you change from a themeskin not using lsslider to a theme using lsslider.

Say you remove the volume box from the gathering skin. Then switching from stylish version to normal version, or to another theme will probably crash litestep. Then you have to forcibly terminate litestep and rerun it.

So now that I've readded the volume box to the gathering, it doesn't crash when I switch skins anymore.

I agree with RabidCow, common code should be common. "This is a nice idea, but impossible." It is not impossible. Thats just like saying "keeping personal settings in a seperate personal.rc that every theme loads is impossible". If "ThemeSkins" are actually just regular themes then why are they packaged together and called "ThemeSkins"?

In my opinion, for the amount of hype that this theme has gotten one would have thought that it would have been more thoroughly checked. I have used it for a couple hours and found many bugs (which I tried to work around), but after litestep nearly crashed my system (it had 9,999 GDI objects and kept trying for more but my system wouldn't allow it) I gave up on Gathering.

Andymon/ls-universe, I don't like the way you're reacting to certain comments. For example, in a comment to the news about Gathering you say "Inhaler, please stop posting such totally wrong hints[...]". His "hints" are actually more correct than yours. Telling netloadmodule to look for a non-existant module is a disgusting and half-assed "hint" for fixing a problem that should have been fixed before the theme was ever released (again, not good enough testing). "[...] if YOU don't understand the theme structure :(
You can complain as much as you want, but don't tell other users with problems YOUR weak-minded fixing descriptions!!" It has nothing to do with the theme structure, and HIS weak-minded fixing descriptions? Both "fixing descriptions" have the same effect, except his "weak-minded" one is cleaner and nicer than yours. Does that mean your "fixing descriptions" are even more "weak-minded"?

Your excessive use of exclamation marks and insulting people makes me wonder. Also, you shouldn't call other people's comments confusing when it seems you don't quite grasp the english language yourself. I have no problem understanding the "confusing" comments, but in some of your comments I have no idea what you're trying to say.

"I don't like the way you're reacting to certain comments - His "hints" are actually more correct than yours."
we created the theme so we should know how to fix, and surprise sureprise... it works. Sure you can search through the whole code, but why should you if you can disable the element which made problems? ok, everbody has to do what he wants to do, I don't care. It's an easy to use/update theme and thats why it's absolutly incorrect to help in that way that users have to change tons of code.
1000 themes are around the world which ppl install and they never worked or started and nobody cares. but if we're going to release, some few are sure we did wrong.
I don't know how long you're using ls, but I do since '98-'99, I know the times when themes were released with the whole build and you realy have to go through the code and change all of it that it "could" work.

"(again, not good enough testing)"
I think the download counts says a lot of testing:
510 downloads, 2 guys have problems, 2 guys can't get it to work....
We had 2 official beta testers and 5 or 6 inofficial, all the guys from Gathering Development Team, and on all systems it worked fine. We know that there're problems on 9x/ME and we said that!!!!!! How often did I tried a theme where the mzscript or label.dll wassn't able to load, but it was at the right place??? I can't count, but that happends, I know it makes angry, but THIS is realy not the fault of the themer!!! But cause of that, we decidet taht it is very easy to "unload" or disable it, I don't have to tell you how, cause Andymon allready did.

"I have no problem understanding the "confusing" comments"
I'm not talking about his words, it's the content!
It is 4 us confusing cause he tries to tell us features we should inculde, which ARE already in there. if he's not able to find them... it's confusing.

"If "ThemeSkins" are actually just regular themes then why are they packaged together and called "ThemeSkins"?"
A simple posting before Andymon explained that the "ThemeSkin" or "Skin" is not the perfect word for that feature.

"seems you don't quite grasp the english language yourself"
oh well, I could tell you the whole thing in german, cause I'm much more better in, so than it's your turn to translate all the time. I know that we're not perfect in english, but all others understood our "hints"(!!!!!)

""This is a nice idea, but impossible." It is not impossible."
Ok, than it's your turn now to do it and show us that it does work. We can do a lot of things with litestep, modules are the limit.

---------
Sometimes I feel like some enivous in here, but I don't know why (and I'm not alone with that opinion), and makes me sad. I love to see other themers with fantastic ideas. example: inhalers new theme, I like the idea, which is also nothing new to me, but I like it. I would never say that this is crap, cause I don't have the right to do, in my opinion, ONLY the themer himself got the right to say something like that!
Sometimes themer/user forgot why themers are doing this. Cause they want to create something they like and can work with. No themer has to release their work that other user could use it.

Now I (Andymon):
@Faithful:
(If "ThemeSkins" are actually just regular themes then why are they packaged together and called "ThemeSkins"?)
Read my post "What is Gathering?"
And I made this theme and if i say it's not possible you should really believe me, especially when you didn't get the theme running and have it for less then 4 days.

(and found many bugs (which I tried to work around))
It would have been much more intelligent to post these "Bugs" here, than your other opinions. Maybe you found really a bug and not only a problems which is caused by module incompatibilities with Your system. In this case we could have fixed it.

(it would have been more thoroughly checked)
We (Developers and Beta Testers) had no bugs (NONE). But, if some people (you) have problems with certain well developed and long as bugfree known modules that's not the fault of the theme. If, for example, LSSlider don't work on your system, how can WE know this and make a bugfix before YOU have this problem. Next is, how should I fix it if I don't get this error and 90% of the other users also. I think that very few people have such module incompatibilities, but it can obviously happen. We have used only well developed and long as bugfree known modules (due to our knowledge).

(I don't like the way you're reacting to certain comments)
I react very indulgent to certain posts especially this one.

(Both "fixing descriptions" have the same effect, except his "weak-minded" one is cleaner and nicer than yours.)
If you think it's "cleaner and nicer" for Users to search through 94 files in 10 folders like Inhaler suggests, than editing one line in one given file with a 1 time occuring MessageBox. I don't know what to say :|
Next is, again, how can I fix a problem (which i cannot reproduce), which occours only on a few systems. And how much themers have any beta tester at all, except themself to test their themes? Does anybody complain about..- these?

(excessive use of exclamation marks and insulting people)
Is it forbidden to use exclamation marks?? (Guess what. No exclamation marks till here) And I don't insult people more, than you do. In fact, is it an insult to tell a hint weak-minded if it tells Users to search through all config files to search for some lines. If inhaler had posted the files which had to be edited, noone would call the hint weak-minded. Next is, it wasn't his first "absent-minded" post.

(don't quite grasp the english language yourself)
Well, I'm native german and you're for sure a english teacher, therefore I won't reach your abilities. But you're the first who don't understand my posts. Maybe a reason for this post btw.

"To err is human, to forgive is not our policy." - Dilbert

Andymon

This theeme is great, look at the code and youll see how much work went into this theme. Its a while overdue (supposedly for the 50,000 user mark) but the theme is incredible. I cant see how you guys bash this incredible theme. Step up to the plate and show everyone how it should be done it you dont like it.

Cool idea, just started messing with it. one little itty bitty odd thing though. After installing the theme and doing a clean reboot with it seleceted everything seems to load fine...downloads the updated modules i needed (best thing ever to happen to any shell) and then a wierd window opens that is always on top. in this box is this text -

Andre: Sag mal, Hanno, hast du nichts zu tun dass du mit deinem MAX spielen must...

cant close this window, it doesnt show up in the task bar, and i cant move it either...its a big window...about 90% use of my screen width but only 10% of the height. Any ideas on how to get rid of this? (ps i checked, no its not an IM window:)
ghost in the machine anyone?

screenshot?

It's the "quote" thing... I've been wondering how to get rid of it as well. To close it I believe you right click on it, but it will continue to appear each time you start the theme.

Yeah i jsut right click it, im also interested on an easy way to disable it.

Sorry guys, that was my fault that the quotes are german *hides*. I searched the whole web for funny computer quotes in english like "the users never need more than 8 mb ram - Bill Gates" or something like that, but I forgot to save this file seperatly. Than andymon came to visit with an further update, all my 200 quotes were deleted *cries*, and later I forgot to search for new.

the quotes only popup once a day.

We're working on a new version of gathering that it will hopefully work on nearly every system, so we can do a themepopup entry where to disable the quotes :)
for now you can close the quote box on right clicking like Liquid Circuit and Mr_Goat allready said :)

ls-universe -
I gotta say that you guys did a great job in putting this together and getting it to flow smoothly. I'm still having issues with changing skins and to be honest, none of the skins really moved me, so that's another reason why i'm not using this theme. I've found that my pc locks up on bootup when i'm using this theme and even setting the theme to the default that came with the installer doesn't help, i've got to reboot. Occasionally, when changing skins or specific settings within a skin, the pc would lock up. I'm using XP, BTW. Again, i think this is the right step forward and i'm gonna continue to use LS as i love it, but i relate this to microsoft going from 98 to millennium edition (was that what it was called?). it looks prettier and has a few more bells and whistles, but not really necessary as the current version works wonderfully. Personally, i'm using Simplicity as my theme and i've never found a more functional theme that i love so much. Regardless, keep up the good work and i'll continue to support every effort that LS throws at me.

I'm loving it!

I don't know if I understood right, but I think you're talking about the ability to drag something inside a "box" and then, that stuff is, now, part of the "box".
In the other hand, drag the "thing" outside the "box" make it free, again.
If that's what you're talking about, I can tell you:
Yes, you can do things like this with skinbox :)